tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post3701589418337949021..comments2023-10-05T06:20:40.173-04:00Comments on Quaker Pagan Reflections: Cat's Spiritual Journey, Part VII: Morticia Loves GomezCat C-B (and/or Peter B)http://www.blogger.com/profile/10002916434676859262noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-69145240303725305342008-07-12T03:50:00.000-04:002008-07-12T03:50:00.000-04:00"I could talk about howling aloud so hard in anger..."I could talk about howling aloud so hard in anger and sadness that I stripped my vocal cords raw, and could not speak for almost two weeks. I could tell you that it was the only time in my life I’ve lost weight without trying—because I simply could not eat or swallow."<BR/><BR/>I nearly cried with this paragraph. Though I was the one who was left for someone better I know this feeling well. I cried for days, sometimes without any sobs. Tears just came. And I lost over 30 pounds in less than 6 months without any work whatsoever. <BR/><BR/>Mercifully, my relationship was patched up. Now to get over that pain in one piece. I know he went through a lot of pain as well - your post has solidified that for me. It's something I know I need to remember more often. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for such an honest and eloquent look into your soul. Much happiness to you and Peter always.Grianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11274354061926580033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-14394648383811933442007-08-09T13:32:00.000-04:002007-08-09T13:32:00.000-04:00I don't think the process of baring your soul, as ...I don't think the process of baring your soul, as you have done in this wonderful and inspiring series of posts, is self-indulgent - quite the opposite, it is a form of kenosis, and an expression of humility (which, I read on an Orthodox website, comes from connecting to humus, the Earth).Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-83509081090901551772007-08-04T08:01:00.000-04:002007-08-04T08:01:00.000-04:00Anonymous,I wonder why you say this. Is it becaus...Anonymous,<BR/>I wonder why you say this. Is it because I acknowledge having hurt other people, or because, though I don't like that fact, I don't feel that I can honestly say I "regret" it, given the joy I feel in my current marriage? Is it because I am a divorced and remarried woman? Is it because I identify that the process was painful for me as well as those around me? Because I did not have the insight to understand my own emotional condition earlier in the process?<BR/><BR/>I'm guessing that, if you have made it this far, it's not because I've got a hyphenated religious identity. Perhaps the topic seems simply too personal to explore in a public forum, and that's what you mean by "self-indulgent." <BR/><BR/>In which case, I wonder if you had read the earlier entries in the Spiritual Journey series here. (Though this is the most recent entry, it will show up first in a casual scan of the blog, as my blog, like most, is posted in reverse chronological order.) Truthfully, there's something really satisfying in writing a spiritual autobiography, and I've been finding both the writing and the dialog with readers after each chapter comes out very nurturing--even when readers question me in places.<BR/><BR/>I guess I won't know if you don't tell me. However, I will say that, if this entry is indeed self-indulgent, well, then, so's the premise of the blog. It is my intention to hold out my life--the only one I know intimately--for examination as one life lived as consistently as I have known how to, in congruence with Spirit. Which is not to say I haven't made at least my share of mistakes along the way. I'm at least trying to be frank and candid about those moments, too. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps all the show and tell _is_ self-indulgent. It's how I know how to talk about spirituality, though. What's that quote? "Here I stand; I can do no other"?Cat C-B (and/or Peter B)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10002916434676859262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-16953719783969515232007-08-04T00:44:00.000-04:002007-08-04T00:44:00.000-04:00I rather liked your blog until I got to this entry...I rather liked your blog until I got to this entry. This makes it quite clear that all the spirituality, both pagan and Quaker, is nothing but self-indulgence... self-centered and self-deluded indulgence masquerading as spirituality, completely lacking in any integrity. The only surprising thing is my continuing desire/expectation of anything else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-13768619285970357532007-07-30T09:16:00.000-04:002007-07-30T09:16:00.000-04:00What a lovely way to meet, in mutual admiration of...What a lovely way to meet, in mutual admiration of each other's prose and thought processes. A meeting of minds and spirits.<BR/><BR/>We should all begin with genuine friendship first, and move forward from there. Beautiful story.<BR/><BR/>I'm adding the Earth Spirit Community link to my webspace. <BR/><BR/>Enjoy this day, MWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-20771855396265584662007-07-30T08:12:00.000-04:002007-07-30T08:12:00.000-04:00Hi, MW,Peter and I both wrote for and edited separ...Hi, MW,<BR/>Peter and I both wrote for and edited separate little Pagan zines back in the '80s, so we first "met" in print, where we liked each other's writing enough that, when we met by chance at a series of classes on Wicca taught by Andras Corben Arthen of the <A HREF="http://www.earthspirit.com/" REL="nofollow">Earth Spirit Community</A>.<BR/><BR/>It didn't take us long to recognize each other as friends... though it took a bit longer, as you might guess, for us to understand just how close that friendship could be.<BR/><BR/>Seventeen years later, and there's just no doubt that meeting Peter was the best thing that ever happened to me.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for reading.Cat C-B (and/or Peter B)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10002916434676859262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-76364929802501693312007-07-29T18:41:00.000-04:002007-07-29T18:41:00.000-04:00Thank you for sharing this. Letting go is painful ...Thank you for sharing this. Letting go is painful and soul-wrenching, and often bitter-sweet. <BR/><BR/>In the end you and Peter found each other in trueness and rebuilt in acceptance and love. <BR/><BR/>May I ask, in general, how you and Peter met? I'm always curious to know how people meet their soulmates.<BR/><BR/>Bountiful Blessings upon you and yours, MWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-87910092877185163022007-07-25T19:29:00.000-04:002007-07-25T19:29:00.000-04:00Kent--thank you for the kindness of your words! I...Kent--thank you for the kindness of your words! I am really deeply honored. And toying with creating a mischievous cartoon logo for the page, based on your image of the Quakin' Penguins, of a couple of penguins, one in a Quaker bonnet, and the other in suspenders, a beard, and a straw hat. Or should that be quacking penguins? Still playing with the concept, but the image will not go away, and, heck, it would make <I>such</I> a nifty tee shirt.<BR/><BR/>Deborah Oak, thank you especially for sharing a bit of yourself. You're absolutley one of my favorite spiritual bloggers, so to have you connect with a piece of my writing feels great.<BR/><BR/>I'm looking forward to getting the next installment up: I'm composing in my head whenever I'm left alone for fifteen minutes. The next piece will be about working to create community...and then about the things I've learned about how forgiveness and acceptance fit into that. (One of the many areas where, in hindsight, I can see my current Quaker pieces starting to take shape.) <BR/><BR/>Hopefully I will manage to tell it well, while respecting the privacy of people I've struggled with over the years. Wish me luck, please.Cat C-B (and/or Peter B)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10002916434676859262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-12495838073067812092007-07-24T14:10:00.000-04:002007-07-24T14:10:00.000-04:00This is so beautiful. I've been thinking a lot abo...This is so beautiful. I've been thinking a lot about acceptance and forgiveness these days. Your post shines with both. My child too has been hurt by the choices I've made..ones I don't regret making, but facing and sitting with the truth that these choices have been hurtful to others...without making anyone else bad or wrong...that's hard. Thank you.deborahoakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08885597618292635710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-60412641632078858572007-07-20T13:30:00.000-04:002007-07-20T13:30:00.000-04:00Cat,We do not know each other, but I discovered Qu...Cat,<BR/><BR/>We do not know each other, but I discovered Quaker Pagan Reflections through Martin K’s Quaker Quaker site, and I was so impressed with what you and Peter share here that I added your blog to my Favorites list (which I don’t do lightly!) <BR/><BR/>I’ve been busy the last couple of months, and just checked back in to discover your wonderful Spiritual Journey series. It is simply incredible. It is such compelling reading that I found myself staying up late two nights in a row to read the whole thing, and I woke up this morning with the words “Pager Quakan, Quagar Pakin” (which pretty soon devolved into “Quakin’ Penguin”) revolving in my head. And I’m afraid it’s inspired me to make a rather long reply, which might be best sent as an email. But I would welcome any more general discussion that might come from it – and long posts seem de rigeur on this blog anyway!<BR/><BR/>First, Cat, I just want to confirm what an extraordinary writer you are. As someone who writes and teaches nonfiction writing, I think you are an excellent writer with a clear and confident voice.<BR/><BR/>Second, this series is so compelling because you open yourself up so completely. Thank you for exposing yourself emotionally and morally. It’s a risky thing to do for any number of reasons, but I have learned from your story the same way one learns about human emotions and moral choices through reading a good novel.<BR/><BR/>Third, thank you for exposing me to the possibility of Paganism as a coherent religious practice that may have something to teach even Quakers. My own Meeting is affiliated with both the FGC and Conservative branches of Q, and while I am at heart a liberal, I do fear that liberal Quakerism is becoming less a vibrant religion than a mush of pleasant feelings and good intentions ungrounded in any particular faith tradition, without any clear path or discipline for getting one through the underworld Darkness to the Light we all want to live in. <BR/><BR/>Therefore, I have more and more found myself attracted to the honest, direct Christianity of the Conservatives. (In fact, I just returned from Conservative Yearly Meeting, where I met Marshall Massey.) They seem ready to “go deep” into spirituality, in a way that a more liberal “salad bar” mentality (I’ll take a little bit of this spiritual tradition and a little bit of that, etc.) simply seems unprepared to do. And having grown up a Christian, I am not threatened by the Christian language.<BR/><BR/>Yet, your Spritual Journey series, as well as other writings on this site, have reminded me that what I mean by “Christ” has never been an exclusive ideal so much as a mere word or label for my experience of a particular Reality. And, after all, what attracted me to Quakerism was the notion that God is a Reality always beyond any particular human understanding or expression of the Divine, whether in creeds or images or rituals or liturgies or labels. <BR/><BR/>More to the point, the similarities between our spiritual journeys have reminded me of the pagan quakings that I myself have experienced from time to time – those moments when you half-glimpse The Other Side of Things (like Susan in your Narnia example) – and how important they were to my own spiritual formation, especially when younger. I incorporated them into my own very liberal Christianity, simply because that was the path which I was on at the time, but they still resonate for me. <BR/><BR/>You have reminded me of how deep they can sound, as well. In particular, your intelligent, discussions of Paganism helped me see that what started out as a cobbled-together “salad bar” of invented “traditions” can – if done with the maturity, intelligence and moral sense you bring to your story – evolve into a coherent spiritual path of real value.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for all of that. You have given me much to think about, Cat!<BR/><BR/>KentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-26444833554567209232007-07-19T23:31:00.000-04:002007-07-19T23:31:00.000-04:00Hi Cat,It has now been a very long time since I've...Hi Cat,<BR/>It has now been a very long time since I've read Fire and Hemlock and I remember little of it. Perhaps time to go back, since I've enjoyed sharing her YA fiction with my teen age son.<BR/> <BR/>As far as I know, your writing is one of the best I know of on the pagan blog scene. I hit you and Jason and Anne Johnson every day without fail."<BR/> <BR/>you are doing amazing work.<BR/> <BR/>davidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-38958406102986355442007-07-19T18:27:00.000-04:002007-07-19T18:27:00.000-04:00Erik, Abby, Kate, Plain Foolish--thank you so much...Erik, Abby, Kate, Plain Foolish--thank you so much for your kind words. It has been very satisfying traveling back in time to this period of my life and trying to shed some new light on it all. Erik, your tenderness does you credit--your daughter is a lucky, lucky girl.<BR/><BR/>David (and Erik) it is really amazing how much power the old songs have! I wish that those who form their impression of the Otherworld would read these songs, and really think about what they say! A lot of lessons on how to deal properly with human or non-human beings--manners, being careful what we ask for, the quality of holding fast...<BR/><BR/>Have either of you ever read Diana Wynne Jones's novel, _Fire and Hemlock_? Though most of her books have a lot of whimsy in them, this one, a retelling of the "Tam Lin" story, does not. I love it, though (like the tales themselves) it is disturbing...<BR/><BR/>And thanks to each of you for letting me know I'm writing for an actual, living, breathing audience. If my words hold meaning for you, I am more than glad, and I get to feel a little bit like I'm paying back some of the ways hearing other people's truths has healed and empowered me over the years.Cat C-B (and/or Peter B)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10002916434676859262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-49071010531225805022007-07-19T17:48:00.000-04:002007-07-19T17:48:00.000-04:00I keep not commenting, I know, and I should -- you...I keep not commenting, I know, and I should -- your writing is so powerful! It's hard to have anything to say in response, though.<BR/><BR/>But I'm very much enjoying reading this, and I find the whole thing enlightening. Thank you, very much.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00469586369675197872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-3643088651840376662007-07-19T11:30:00.000-04:002007-07-19T11:30:00.000-04:00Thank you for sharing your journey with us, even a...Thank you for sharing your journey with us, even as I realize that it must be terribly difficult to share some of it. I find a deep tenderness in my heart for all of you. Thank you.Plain Foolishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02922112483988477841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-33919272954458261822007-07-18T18:15:00.000-04:002007-07-18T18:15:00.000-04:00oh my dear friend...your words ring so true.your w...oh my dear friend...<BR/>your words ring so true.<BR/><BR/>your writing is so strong and clear and so touching.<BR/>I love you - for so many reasons.<BR/><BR/>Bless you.<BR/><BR/>Abby.Absterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15303841286151498950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-14532116504707490292007-07-18T00:57:00.000-04:002007-07-18T00:57:00.000-04:00Hi Cat,Blogger defeats me again. I was just adding...Hi Cat,<BR/>Blogger defeats me again.<BR/> <BR/>I was just adding this addendum to the last post<BR/> <BR/>"Interestingly enough, RJ Stewart says that Thomas the Rhymer and Tam Lin encompass everything that needs to be known about relating to the faery world. Quite a statement from a man who has written a yard of books. <BR/> <BR/>peace and health,<BR/>david"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-20252292568249722372007-07-17T23:38:00.000-04:002007-07-17T23:38:00.000-04:00tape of Steeleye Span—“Thomas the Rhymer"Ah, memor...<I>tape of Steeleye Span—“Thomas the Rhymer"</I><BR/><BR/>Ah, memories. Celtic/folk mix tapes were part of our courtship as well; and I believe that song in particular was featured, as well as their amazing 9-minute live version of "Tam Lin"...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25987874.post-38229011807629650272007-07-17T23:34:00.000-04:002007-07-17T23:34:00.000-04:00I could pretend that I don't remember my daughter ...<I>I could pretend that I don't remember my daughter grieving for him for years after we separated, or how, when we would drive home together after her weekend-long visits to his house, she would sometimes wail for an hour or more for the Daddy she knew she was going to miss.</I><BR/><BR/>OK, you finally did it - you made me cry. :}<BR/><BR/>I know you've been wondering why these posts get so few comments; I can't speak for anybody else, but I simply can't think of anything to say in the face of such overwhelming honesty that wouldn't sound trite or pointless... other than "bless you".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com